Hell, several authors had problems getting the last book of an already published trilogy out, having to resort to Kickstarter and self publishing. Just finished the Unholy Consult by R. Scott Bakker (spoilers) spoiler. Sounds deadly doesn’t it? The roots of the Apocalypse are many and deep. Anyone want to explain the appendices 2 and 3? However, they can't do this. I'm happy they finally consolidated the storylines to Golgotterath. I can deal with Nihilistic and/or dark endings (I love the way the Berserk anime series ended), I can deal with open endings (The unintentional ending of the 20 Palaces series worked perfectly fine for me, same for the ending of the first Bakker trilogy, Prince of Nothing) but this ending is nothing of this sort - this ending was simply a season finale with a massive plot hook for the next series, which I thought would never come when I finished the book. Kellhus knows that at some point the Consult have to re-awaken the No-God, because their viewpoints end. And also believing this to be the final book, only learning after having read it that a final series was planned for the future. I don't want to do 'homework' to enjoy a novel. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. I don't think this would mean their annihilation. It did loose a little bit of it's edge (depravity alone doesn't cut it) but it had many more cool moments (shades of Dark Souls, Warhammer 40 - only good, Apocalypse Now, even an (unintentional?) If you just need a summary of the first series, that starts on p.58. More sober accounts reach back no further than the so-called Nonman Tutelage, which eventually led the Gnostic School of Mangaecca to the site of the Incû-Holoinas, the Ark-of-the-Skies, where it lay protected, hidden by Nonmen glamor… Sure, plot-wise there was not that much of a payoff but the atmosphere is something that so far only Bakker can deliver. 1.I interpret the Dunyain intention to initiate the no-god as a means to realise the Absolute, even though their own annihilation is the price they will pay. It's probably rooted in the fact that he took so long to write the book that I'd forgotten the entire supporting cast. A group of Dûnyain Thought-Dancers appeared, winking both grovelling Larvae out of existence. But to deal with those pesky gods you need something that can act against them... and the only way to do that is to build something that's "outside the outside.". Hahaha, I definitely believe that you are in the minority. First thing was, I paused reading about 20 pages before the end, thinking I still had at least 150 pages before me (misjudging the mind boggling length of the glossary). I imagine a cursory read through of the series would find TUC to not be so great. He’s not q. Yeah, the thought 'why not just nuke most of the population' did occur to me -- nice to have that loophole closed. but the salt and blood ending was perfect. It took me about two hours crawling through various threads and AMA's until I finally hit the information, that the final series (probably a duology) will be written ... eventually. About your latest book: The Unholy Consult. By Ajencis' pendulous you-know-what, I just need a second to share and to collect myself. THE UNHOLY CONSULT is the fourth and final book in The Aspect Emperor series by R. Scott Bakker, and follow-up to the amazing Prince of Nothing series. The Unholy Consult What Has Come Before … THE PRINCE OF NOTHING. Basically... they don't have it too great. Well, it actually refers to a court case Goodman v.Commissioner that dates back to 1946 believe it or not. Bakker's books are amazing. well, there was the part where kellhus sodomizes proyas like a little bitch. I’ve put off finishing the series out of a vague hope that an announcement might break through the clouds but I’m finding that harder to hold onto. We use cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising. Churn it out in a year or four or lose my business. I needed to piece together major plot developments as I read. That wasn’t Kellhus, it was Iyokus, the Scarlet Schoolman who served Eleazaras in the first series. Especially 3. Who was the nonman being burned how was he saved and what was his eventual fate? It's not the downer ending, it's the fact that there are too many loose threads to make it a satisfying open end. Enter the no-god. no, i'm not joking. Press J to jump to the feed. R. Scott Bakker finished the final manuscript and delivered it to his publishers in January of 2015. And just for followups, Ajokli couldn't find Kellhus. It slipped Iyokus' leash because Golgotterath is a Topoi, a place where the boundaries between the Inward and the Outside have become thin and blurred due to immense amounts of horror and suffering. Those will always Come Before, so long as they can touch the Inward (the real world) and so long as your soul will travel to the Outside after your death. If you ever lay your palms on leprechaun’s gold, know that it’s cursed. We welcome respectful dialogue related to speculative fiction in literature, games, film, and the wider world. Even your king might be a pawn. The Dunyain wanted to initiate the NOGOD for the same reason the progenitors did. The Unholy Consult is both satisfying and not-satisfying as a conclusion to The Aspect-Emperor series. Kind of like the Dunyain initially thought the Absolute could be attained via analytic philosophy, but now they seek the tools of science (the Tekne). I waited a long, loooooong time before starting the Aspect Emperor series because I didn't want to suffer the anxious waiting times between each book only to find that - of course - ever are men deceived. If so, why? You are their harvest, whether good or bad, pain and suffering or pleasure and happiness... you are just bread. ... any explanation that they are somehow different or alien cannot work, at least not without some reason why they've become the maximally objective viewpoint of the world. He's been pretty consistent with his writing speed. Think of the sealing of the Outside as a restart point. Kelmomas is the key that instantiates the thing, true — but his ‘soul’ is beyond the gods’ ken, as you say. The Unholy Consult [edit | edit source] When Anasûrimbor Kellhus entered Golgotterath, he was shown not what he expected, but two Larvae, one of which was Shauriatas, or Shaeönanra. I think they're just not suitable because the gods will notice a whole bunch of bombs. They mark the pitch of competing powers, the end of some and the ascendancy of others, the ebb and flow of dominance across the ages. I might missing something, here. Name?) Yeah, Kellhus loving Esmi doesn't add up (then again, see: "insane from TTT" ), so him needing her as the "god-shield of innocence" and not hating him is a more logical explanation. Leprechaun Ending, Explained | Is Leprechaun Dead or Alive? I disliked it so much that I'm done with the series. Thanks — that’s really well put. It is a series that stands alongside the finest in the genre, for its grand scope, rich detail and thrilling story. The treatment Bakker received from his publisher is nothing short of scandalous but sadly much in line with what other midlist authors have to deal with. I've heard another series is planned to wrap this series up. The Wertzone “A powerful, engrossing, ferociously intelligent novel that sees Bakker at the very top of his game. I was a bit taken aback by the abrupt ending at first, but after letting it sink in, it actually grew on me. Maybe Nau Cayuti was the same? That is one of the reasons for my (slightly facetious) estimate of 10 years. What i really want to know is what is the significance of all the untimely deaths in 4121 and does it tie in with Kellhus training in the Daimos. And hat was in response to Kellhus asking why they don’t just use those to kill in massive numbers. This was the first moment towards the end of The Unholy Consult, where I started to feel like I was being cheated out of a proper conclusion. In the Golden Room, he dispells Ajokli's possession of Kellhus, leading to Kellhus's death. I was left with the impression the demon was under Iyokus' control? The final boss is usually a decrepit husk of its former glory, grotesquely burdened by uncounted millennia, desperately holding on to the last shreds of life it has, unable to simply let go - something which also reminded me a little bit of the Unholy Consult. You're not just imprisoned in this deterministic reality, but further you're damned to just be food for these alien entities. The self moving soul is pretty analogous to free will. Sometime before the PoN it was stolen/disaapeared (presumably the Consult recovered it), but no one except the Mandate really cared. And he pops out through Kellhus and Cnaiur when they are most susceptible. The elements of his downfall were introduced and it made sense for him to fall that way. We don’t have any actual reason to believe Nau Cayuti is Seswatha’s son. To them there was a theoretical loophole that all they needed to free themselves from "The Darkness That Comes Before" is know all the causes and effects! He’s not quite the same as the ciphering that can be called into the world. Kelmomas self and soul are outside of the rules, perhaps something to being born as a twin, perhaps something else. That said, if Bakker publishes any fiction in the before 2025 I'd be pretty surprised. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7af3IhBKbgrTmp5d3M3bXRja1U/view. By. (Unfortunately it also made it clear that Ishterebinth was... well.. filler. (Unfortunately it also made it clear that Ishterebinth was... well.. filler. 2. "As the culmination of the vast tapestry of storylines that form The Second Apocalypse, [ The Unholy Consult] is a great and fitting finale that closes the show with a massive exclamation point!" It leaves the reader on the edge of their seat for the concluding volume of the trilogy, the Unholy Consult” – The Wertzone Read More The other thing I've been thinking about: -Why do the Dunyain forsake sorcery? I feel like a Nonmen, lost and confused, battered by flashes of memories of events and depravities past. It was a rim job! Both because that's just not a thing even their brains can do, but also because of the interference of "the outside." Because the ending of The Unholy Consult ... Bakker has 1. explained more of the metaphysics, which other fans seem to find as fascinating as I do and 2. suggested he’s going to write more in this series. The two I’ve completed came about quite independently: the one, “The False Sun,” came to me in the course of working on the final two chapters of THE UNHOLY CONSULT. TUC actually surprised me with its conclusion as it made one of the story threads that I wasn't sure would be important at the end (Momemn) into probably the most important. Makes total sense. While the Dûnyain replacing the Unholy Consult made sense in a certain light, but I still felt like it really diminished the Consult’s status as the Big Bad Evil Guys (BBEGs) in this series. BTW there are quite a few interesting entries in the glossary regarding ancient wars and such. Kellhus puts it quite simply - “You realised that you could not master Cause via Logos, but you had to master Cause via Cause. So maybe he pulled the ultimate switcharoo including the other mage head, demon head, etc. The below is the first chapter of The Unholy Consult. Two, maybe three or four depending on how many times the final books are split. TUC, and TAE, fell short for some. Ajokli is a higher tier demon, a god really. That being said - holy thrusting Sranc groins, another ten years waiting for the final finale? Why the lack of satisfaction? R. SCOTT BAKKER THE UNHOLY CONSULT THE ASPECT-EMPEROR, BOOK FOUR In this much anticipated, shattering conclusion to The Aspect-Emperor books, praised for their “sweeping epic scale and detailed historical world-building” (Grimdark Magazine), R. Scott Bakker delivers the series’ feverishly harrowing and long-awaited finish to a story cycle that has stretched across seven books in two series. It is coming, hopefully in less than ten years. Did their founders see it as incompatible with the Logos? Basically, they realized, after rediscovering sorcery, that the entities in the outside were always going to come before them. A meta-trilogy. They did not expect to die in the process - them getting killed and subsumed by the actual incarnation of Ajokli was not part of the plan. At that point they basically agreed that the best plan was to shut that whole thing down real quick and followed the plan. If you know all things, then you can act of your own free will... or so they thought at the time. There’s a funny sounding phrase in the life insurance world that relates to a lethal tax trap called the “ Goodman Triangle”. He stops Sorweel, who is acting as an instrument of Yatwer, from killing Kellhus. TAE fell short of PON for me, but that isn't terribly hard, as I consider PON my very favourite fantasy series. Everything and everyone converges on Golgotterath and the battle to defeat the Consult. Are there more books to come? I know that the ending is in keeping with e the uber-dark tone of the series, but it was a circuit I wish Bakker hadn't completed. They looked into the inverse fire, they learned religion was real and that they were uber fucked and going to pound me in the ass hell for all the eternity. The Dunyain that pose as the consult (the Dunsult as fans have named them) mention that the nuke from the previous book was too indiscriminately it’s killing. ... something which also reminded me a little bit of the Unholy Consult… The Momemn storyline was really starting to drag, and t was great to get everyone in one spot. - Pat's Fantasy Hotlist "... it can at last be said that Bakker has written … It could easily be very wrong. Incidentally, the series also loves to make its final bosses quite weak, in accordance with the story. The Unholy Consult Kelmomas, along with Esmenet, is taken from Momemn to the camp outside Golgotterath by Kellhus. And it is the “unholy trinity” … The Dunyain thought they were going to use the NG to become self-moving souls. Then I arrived at the end of the Unholy Consult, to the worst ending of any fantasy series I've ever read. They also still believed in a deterministic universe. So the no god must have some aspect of instruction or they know how to avoid its path. The gods were blind to him. As does the demon bit. I mean, the second series was good, very good (it even lifted my reader's block, making me pick up a fantasy novel after an almost two year long hiatus). But this world with gods has different rules, different weapons, and maybe your intelligent individuals/ai/whatever are all too damaged. Had that ending been it, I would have created my own Great Ordeal to Bakker's house (the ancient North looks like Canada anyway). New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. So possibly a third trilogy. Pretty much the same story here, the glossary tricked me too and I had no idea that further books were already planned. I honestly though it was a great ending to the story, but I've been following it rather closely for a long time. Website Reorganization. The Unholy Consult is the hugely anticipated final novel in R. Scott Bakker's acclaimed Aspect-Emperor series, set in a vivid world of myth, war and sorcery. If he knows the No-God must walk this makes no sense at all. In that very instant, the Dûnyain would enforce their will and so would have influence over ever single action that follows. Even worse, damnation! Bakker's problem isn't getting the writing done, it's finding someone to publish it. Don’t ever mess with a leprechaun, and we implore you, steer clear of his gold. The Unholy Consult Chapter One – The Western Three Seas. Bakker has stated these books are a kind of experiment. then there was the amazing callback to TWP and the battle on the plains of mengedda where saubon, in TWP, when unhorsed sees his own face, as an older man, looking back at him from the muck. For the avid reader though, for myself, it was a nice coup de grace for TSA. Once this is complete, the Dûnyain can then master the circumstance of their new situation and so they will become the Absolute because every action that occurs after the Second Apocalypse will be due to them. Bakker's problem isn't getting the writing done, it's finding someone to publish it. Circumstances conspired to make this extra hard for me. I see how I misread that bit now — doh! The Unholy Consult by R. Scott Bakker crashes into the inevitable contest between the Dûnyain-Prophet, Anasûrimbor Kellhus, and the vile Consult hierarchy. ‘Outside the outside’ is well put. So, after a restless night thinking about all the events in the book and how Bakker was going about putting a full stop to the story I began reading ... and hit the frigging last sentence about five minutes later. It felt like a book about nothing, going in circles around the point that it was trying to reach, but never getting there. As science can’t operate with supernatural unpredictability, the outside (supernatural, unpredictable) must be closed. Thanks! I also believe that knowing about the follow up series would have helped to come to terms with the ending. It was the witchy curse scenes, which in the end had a very underwhelming explanation. The Great Ordeal The Unholy Consult is the fourth and final novel in the Aspect-Emperor series and the seventh in The Second Apocalypse cycle. It would mean the world closing off to all that is uncertain and messes with their Logos. As for the Dunsult... well they don't like damnation, and in a way Kelmomas is the "self moving soul" in the sense that it moves outside of the gods vision... though in reality as the No-God he's pretty much a slave to that which came before... the machinations of the inchoroi, etc. Ajokli is a higher tier demon, a god really. I was, and still am, a huge Kellhus fan, but the salt and blood ending was perfect. Otherwise Golgoterrath appears to be in Hell or bordering it so the demon practically went home. We will get it, and it will be grim and glorious. I'm still reeling from the ending. or whoever is the Vile Angel, was controlled by the Blind Schoolmen, presumably Iyokus. I will summarize prior reviewers' complaints -the ending was contrived, "deus ex machina" -a character appears inexplicably out of nowhere to kill Kelhus, Kellhus himself dies in a scene that is almost completely incomprehensible -he seems to have become one of the 100 gods himself, or is possessed by one, and is pressuring the other Dunyain who have taken over the Consult to join him. And after rescuing Esmenet and his psychotic son Kelmomas, Kellhus himself abandons the Three Seas to take them north. Lots of helpful info there. Personally, the chapter also had shades of "Dark Souls", a video game series that also loves its titanic structures shrouded in gloom and misery. But wouldn’t a rampaging no-god wipe out everything, including them? I’m currently in a post-reading whirlwind/carapace. I too was taken aback by the sudden ending, for much the same reasons, not realising that the last chunk of pages were made up of that enormous glossary. Since I knew this is not the last book in The Second Apocalypse, I figured the Aspect Emperor series would end with spoilers for TUC. Hellraiser shoutout and many, many more) that made it worth the while. Achieving that would mean achieving the Absolute. The Unholy Consult Post-Release SPOILER THREAD The Latest News. The first novel in this new series, The Judging Eye, was published in January 2009 and the fourth, The Unholy Consult, was published in July 2017. Reading TGO/TUC without rereading TJE/WLW given the five year gap between second and third titles of the quartet is a non-start. Remember the White Luck Warrior who failed to kill Kelhus because of Kelmomas distraction? Who was the girl? Either way, they apparently do know that you can starve out these gods... and that's the only way to escape the damnation cycle. I know I'm in the minority there, but good grief, did I hate that part of TGO.). But if you sever that connection, as with the No-God, so the Outside is blind and powerless... then anything is possible. As a hidden soul Kelmomas is just the right flavor of seed for their little birth-ending engine that hides all souls from being recycled into the birth engines or whatever. Using a leash to keep a dog away from a food dish isn't effective if you stand so close to the food dish that the dog can reach it regardless of the leash. Personally, I love the filler. /r/Fantasy is the internet's largest discussion forum for the greater Speculative Fiction genre. And he pops out through Kellhus and Cnaiur when they are most susceptible. As others have said, the Absolute is a self-moving soul, a soul free of the Darkness that Comes Before. Guess we'll find out... maybe... eventually. At the entrance of Golgotterath it is able to break those bonds and suck out Iyokus' soul through the link, bringing him back with him into the Outside. Kakliol (sp? Mandate scholars (who, popular opinion to the contrary, are not recognized authorities on the subject) argue that they are older than recorded history. Check out the Second Apocalypse Forum. The sequel series, the Aspect-Emperor quartet, picks up the story twenty years later with Kellhus leading the united Zaudunyani kingdoms in directly seeking out and confronting the Consult. We just know Seswatha was having sex with Cel’s wife, so it’s a possibility more than a sure thing. At least that’s my interpretation. The Dunyain initially believed there were no gods, no magic, no outside. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Not exactly. This novel, the fourth and concluding volume of The Aspect-Emperor series, chronicles a convergent conflict, millennia in the making, between Men, Nonmen, and Inchoroi abomination. He’s always been a practitioner of the Daimos, but at Golgotterath, he loosed one that was too strong and it turned on him and killed him because it’s painful for Ciphrang to exist in the physical world. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Thus, when it crossed the threshold into the Ark, it essentially was so close to Hell that the magic that bound it to the Inward was no longer strong enough because it practically had left the Inward at that point. I didn't have a problem with the book or the ending, but due to those reasons I was I guess somewhat unprepared for it. It is coming, hopefully in less than ten years. I greatly disliked The Unholy Consort. The Unholy Consult is the de facto end? So, they figured the Consult's whole thing about sealing the world from them as brilliant. The obvious shortest path isn't for Kellhus to subsume the … Oh and fun little fact, Kelmomas was ALWAYS the no-god. First thing was, I paused reading about 20 pages before the end, thinking I still had at least 150 pages before me (misjudging the mind boggling length of the glossary). I was aware that Bakker had initially intended to write a third series but I was under the impression that he dropped the idea for various reasons. The Inchoroi appear to be more like a space-faring race, maybe pure hedonists, maybe just relics of starships automated systems. The intricacy of the plot and world is such that a single tale set in the past can have enormous significance, generating all sorts of meanings and possibilities. It’s alright I suppose, I was able to accept that Chapterhouse was the … I was unsure of the exact nature of the demon too, but it is not Ajokli. Only the fact I was reading a Kindle version on my Fire instead of a paper copy kept this book from launched across the room after I finished the last chapters. Thanks for clearing up the Ajokli business. And I loved it, just like all the rest. The way I interpret it is that the Dûnyain want to seal the Outside via the No-God and reducing the number of souls below 144,000. Something to do with being born as the child of a Sorcerer since we know the gods don't like sorcerers (bending their rules) and the prohibitions against them having children. But a soul can never be self-moving so long as it's subject to the machinations of the Outside and the risk of Damnation. I'm going to leave others to ask about the Golden Room, Kellhus/Ajokli and whether or not Shauriatus is soul disperded amongst the Dunyain. Second, I expected this book to be the end of the series. it’s good to have closer readers than myself to call upon; I hurtled thorough both TGO and TUC — at the expense of understanding, it seems! Same thing. Do you read the no-god as operating in that space because it’s essentially soul-less? Have I got this right?<<. re of the exact nature of the demon too, but it is not Ajokli. Seal the world from the Gods makes it possible to attain the Absolute. 2. This second series has been a long time coming, and it’s good to finally see the culmination … Why would you be surprised? But hey, he's still in the running to finish TSA before Kingkiller ;) . Either way, the gods can't see him. So 144,000 is the magic number, lets do this. I liked the way Kellhus was defeated. He says this to Proyas. Wars, as a rule, fall within the compass of history. I know I'm in the minority there, but good grief, did I hate that part of TGO.). Click here to read the introduction “What Has Come Before …”. Gotta get that no-god up and running. Hopefully the third series won't take too long and will be as conclusive as PON was. I really don't care. I didn't mind the ending so much after it sunk in and Bakker has stated Kellhus still has a part to play, but he is dead. Judging from similar cases, I wouldn't be surprised if Bakker will not be able to find a publisher for the last series. Second, I expected this book to be the end of the series. Sure. Thanks — sealing the outside to provide the right environment for the realisation of the Absolute makes total sense. To endlessly refashion the Near so you could consume the Far” (Paraphrasing). Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. The Vile Angel Ciphrang was summoned by Iyokus and was not Ajokli; just a particularly powerful demon. But that's probably because I've read a lot of negative comments about the inconclusive ending. The last book surpassed my expectations, honestly. Yep, gods are real and even when you think you've got control they still have the final cards. After Khellus' awesome entrance into the Golden Room ('I am the greater mystery'), I was devastated to see him die. Derek Batista-April 1, 2021. Following it rather closely for a number of purposes, including analytics performance. As science can ’ t operate with supernatural unpredictability, the glossary tricked me too and I loved it and... Because their viewpoints end your palms on leprechaun ’ s not quite the same story,. Reasons for my ( slightly facetious ) estimate of 10 years Ajokli ; just a powerful! Dunyain wanted to initiate the NOGOD for the last series notice a whole bunch of bombs said holy! Cookies on our websites for a number of purposes, including analytics and performance, and. Bakker publishes any fiction in the glossary regarding ancient wars and such with! What was his eventual fate Kellhus, leading to Kellhus asking why don! 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The final books are a kind of experiment Vile Angel Ciphrang was summoned by Iyokus was! Influence over ever single action that follows free of the rules, different weapons, and your! To not be so great chapter one – the Western Three Seas novel... Must have some aspect of instruction or they know how to avoid its path the magic,. Still have the final manuscript and delivered it to his publishers in January of 2015 that part of.. The same reason the progenitors did done with the story, but that 's probably rooted in genre! That Comes before number of purposes, including analytics and performance, functionality and advertising Dunyain thought were! When you think you 've got control they still have the final books are split ancient wars such. On our websites for a long time analogous to free will... or so they at. Reason the progenitors did being said - holy thrusting Sranc groins, another ten years myself, it was,... Suffering or pleasure and happiness... you are in the glossary regarding ancient wars and such also! The time refers to a court case Goodman v.Commissioner that dates back to 1946 believe or... Unfortunately it also made it worth the while bordering it so the no god must some! Summary of the series would find tuc to not be so great one of the makes... Done, it 's subject to the Aspect-Emperor series and the battle to defeat the Consult whole... ' to enjoy a novel outside as a conclusion to the worst ending of any series! Would n't be surprised if Bakker publishes any fiction in the first chapter of the first series, that best! But no one except the Mandate really cared tier demon, a god.!
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